didyoublush replied to your post:

I don’t think I’ll ever get over the fact that we just don’t know how/if a reconciliation happens! Every so often I get in these sad moods over these two and I just hate it and feel like we could have gotten that taste if it wasn’t based on a true story. The film would of gotten away with a lottt more in that case. I bet he wouldn’t give it, but I’d love to hear where Fincher thinks these characters are one year—heck one month (optimist!)—later. Have these discussions ever come up?

Ugh, GPOY. It would have definitely been a big risk, especially because RL!Mark is so irritated by the Erica Albright thing and the implication that starting Facebook was ~all about girls~, which, coupled with Marylin, was the only real creative liberty Sorkin took. I really like Fincher’s insistence that they were never trying to depict Erica as the love of his life or the one that got away, but rather as someone who represented the beginning of a time in Mark’s life where he said hurtful shit that he would later want to go back and rectify. Went off on a bit of a tangent there, but yeah, that was all a very long way of saying that if RL!Mark felt angry re: the very minimal hints that he created FB to get ladies, I suppose canon Mark/Eduardo would have been even more awkward for him. FUCK YOU FOR EXISTING, ZUCKERBERG. :(

But oh, I never thought about that! As we have discussed, I would really love a second version of the DVD to come out somewhere down the line with that sort of bonus material, because it would be awesome. I know Sorkin once said that, maybe, after the buzz died down, he would possibly reveal which character he thought of as “right”, but I doubt that will happen. And, admire Sorkin though I do, I think I would also be more interested in Fincher’s commentary solely for the fact that I pretty much always agree with him, lmao. Shameless bias! It just seems that everyone involved in the movie has conflicting opinions, and so far, only those from Fincher and Andrew totally line up with my own. Jesse seems to have a more bleak view of Mark’s growth or ability to reach out to people and be happy, not lonely, while I’m just sitting over here with you in our little optimist club; I have no idea what Jesse thought he was playing, because the guy I see on-screen has a lot of potential and warmth and genuine desire underneath the surface. I sometimes wish they had let him and Andrew do improv, even just for additional special features, because by the sounds of it, they had to treat the script like gospel, hence their total delight and amusement in getting to make fun of each other during the Sean Parker dinner montage, apparently the only time they got to make up their own bits. AND THE TABLE ROOM THING. I bet they could have come up with so many wonderful and tense moments during the deposition-era, Andrew especially, since he seems to have a lot of thoughts on Eduardo’s frame of mind in that period.

The thing is, they are so obviously aware of the subtext because they reference it all the time in interviews—‘boyfriend’, ‘love triangle’, ‘fall in love’, ‘fall out of love’, ‘want him for myself’, ‘let’s move in together and cuddle at night’, ‘the break-up scene’, etc., so I sometimes get the vibe that, because it was never clearly defined in canon itself, they make up for it in their meta commentary. And I love them so much for doing it, because unfortunately, most actors in the industry handle ideas like that so immaturely, and apart from, like, one radio interviewer making some comment about Mark and Eduardo being like a bickering rom-com couple, Andrew and Jesse (and Justin and Fincher) always initiated the discussion themselves.  

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1 year ago on 30 April 2011 @ 1:58am 12 notes
formerlydidyoublush
# i never have any thoughts on what wardo's glance here could mean (plus the way he looks down and away when mark says 'no shit') someone tell me their thoughts does he feel weird that mark may view him as money-hungry like the winklevosses and divya or

I think I remember you saying something similar before and I've always, always wondered this as well. It's one of those moments in the movie where I'm completely clueless as to what's happening in their heads--usually I have some sort of subjective head canon occurring! I was just rewatching it and I think that's definitely a possibility. Like, the whole thing seems so mundane and Eduardo kind of gets up, stretches, cranes his neck and lazily goes to get a glass of water; I think Mark's abrupt outburst (do you see any of your code on Facebook?!) snapped him out of that monotony of the Winklevoss deposition afternoon. Maybe it's a bit shocking for a split second to see him get so worked up. I could be speaking out of my ass but I think Mark is pretty stoic for the most part in his deposition scenes with Eduardo (save the odd snarky comment or two and the ping pong room moment) and he doesn't seem to feel anything or let anything really penetrate him, while Eduardo is probably doing nothing but feeling. Eduardo's statements are really charged and personal (Mark only wanted him for money, etc) but of course things regarding the nature of who truly owns Facebook are enough to liven up and ignite Mark, but the more personal things like what Mark did to Eduardo and the things leading up to it or Eduardo's (skewed maybe) hindsight aren't. I think that's a bit of a kick in the chin to Eduardo. So yeah, I can see it also solidifying that Mark can only see this whole thing to be about other people wanting his money and property, which Eduardo doesn't.

This is sort of unrelated but I was just wondering the other day, why doesn't Mark say that Eduardo wasn't just starter up cash? Why doesn't he say that he wanted him in Palo Alto? He doesn't seem to do much to /personally/ defend himself or his actions in regards to his friendship with Eduardo; he just takes and takes most of what he says. Maybe masochism? Just being overwhelmed by the cynicism that Eduardo churns out regarding their relationship/how he's hurt him? Maybe he's seeing and understanding a lot of this for fist time with the added benefit of a few years removed from the situation and an environment allowing actual introspection? IDK BUT I JUST WANTED MARK TO SHAKE WARDO AND SAY IT WASN'T ABOUT THE MONEY, DAMMIT. I think Eduardo's earnestly aching for that moment as well. At least to see him get worked up in some sort of incredulity about Eduardo's accusations, but nada.

Whee, this is awesome and makes total sense. Now that you mention it, it is sort of Mark’s first and only break in that he raises his voice to match the anger he must feel, something that must have been very rare for Eduardo to witness. Whenever Jesse talks about the depositions making Mark feel attacked and angry and insulted, he seems to be mostly talking about the Winklevosses, I’ve noticed? Especially the comments about how Mark feels they’re irrelevant and a waste of time because he knows in his bones that he created Facebook, while Eduardo never disputed that, even backed Mark up on that. I find it telling that he seems just as bored and tired as Mark does as Gage goes through all of those e-mails. They are so completely on the same page in that deposition room before Eduardo leaves, I cannot even.

Which brings us to Mark bursting out with I went to my friend for the money because that’s who I wanted to be partners with/he was also my best friend. We can safely assume the day of the Winklevoss deposition is somewhere between the two Mark and Eduardo have (I’m currently in the middle of two different lawsuits), so by the time the third and last day rolls around, Mark has already had that outburst and having been so staggered by Eduardo’s empty seat and the humiliation of Gage having to remind him he is being sued by his best friend, he doesn’t want to make himself so vulnerable again? :/ He really is uncharacteristically quiet on day three, which is understandable, since that’s where all of the really heavy stuff comes out and it is visibly killing him to have to relive it again through Eduardo’s eyes, almost as if for the first time. I always come back to the way he looks down guiltily after Eduardo says I figured we were partners because ugh, exact mirror of what he said when Eduardo wasn’t there to hear it and needed to be. But really, absolutely, someone in that room needed to say IT WAS NEVER ABOUT THE MONEY. Maybe I’m reading too deep into Andrew’s comments, but I think you’re totally right—Eduardo is waiting for it, is basically cutting himself open and trying to communicate to Mark that he is so not doing this for some stupid numbers on a cheque. I have to make myself feel better about it by imagining some sort of scene the next morning/afternoon/whenever, post-movie, where the settlement happens, and they somehow catch each other alone and Mark says something like well, you won, you got what you wanted, and Eduardo says it was never the money I wanted, and then, you know. WHATEVER YOU WANT TO HAPPEN NEXT. Mark could say it was never about that for him either and Eduardo would be so relieved and try to hide it but he sucks at poker faces and wears his heart on his sleeve and they would smile stupidly at each other but tentatively because they still have a long way to go and I hate this movie for not giving me one little slice of that. JUST ONE. Not a full reconciliation, just—a taste, okay. :( 

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1 year ago on 30 April 2011 @ 12:26am 12 notes
avengers-grouphug
I just want to let you know that I love it whenever I see you post a long reply or anything with lots of words in it. :'D I basically agree with everything you said. (Dropping in the middle without knowing how they first started out leaves room for imagination and fanfiction so I think we're pretty much all set anyway.) Another thing I love about how Andrew delivered the line "I'm here for you" was how he sat down on Mark's desk instead of just standing there. I don't remember if it was instructed in the script or not, but the way he promptly sat down, got closer, settled in, relaxed, all concerned and ready to listen was really sweet and, in restropect, heartbreaking. The Eduardo back in those Harvard days were just so goddamn innocent and open and accommodating to Mark's wishes that during the rewatches somtimes I wanted to shake him violently. For the part where you don't think their relationship is ugly, yes, but it isn't beautiful either. It had the potential to be so, and there were fleeting moments when it was so, but the destructive and misguided way they danced around each other was so unhealthy that after a while, to me, it was like watching a train wreck and unable to do anything about it. The fact that it had such potential yet got shattered so brutally makes it all the more haunting - to me anyway because I still can't shake it off.

I felt like I was just paraphrasing your reply. -_-

No, this is so lovely and perfectly worded, I want to cuddle it! Really, I barely have anything else to add. Andrew is a gift, man, he brought so much extra to Eduardo through pure physicality and I can’t even imagine anybody else playing him. It could have been an entirely different character in someone else’s hands, especially since he seems to subscribe to the Eduardo Loved Mark belief and another actor might not have gone there. THE HORROR.

And what you said, about him leaning close, is so wonderful to me, because in the break-up scene, it’s kind of mirrored. I mean, he doesn’t lean in to sit on his desk, but he is definitely entirely in Mark’s space and I find it so fascinating, that even when he’s pulling away, he’s so close, and even when he walks off, he looks back with his fist in his mouth like he’s doing everything he can not to sob or something even more emotional, and ugh. Andrew acts with his whole body, and so does Jesse, really, but the difference is that Jesse as Mark kind of sucks it all in and tries very hard to stay stoic and it’s those tiny flickers of weakness where he just can’t that reveal everything you need to know. I remember Jesse saying that Mark essentially wears a suit of armour and that the only thing that peeks out of a suit of armour are the eyes, so I find myself watching his eyes a lot, especially in the depositions (and I love that Andrew seems to do the same, given the fact that, like, half of his audio commentary is about Jesse’s eyes and the things they do and communicate. MMHMM.)
 
I really like your train wreck analogy, because yeah, Mark and Eduardo basically are that faulty train, and as onlookers, we can see exactly where everything is broken and what needs to be patched up, how beautiful it could be and how healthily it could run, but we also understand that it can’t be fixed overnight and without any hard work put into it. I think all of their potential to be 100% beautiful lies in the depositions, really, because they’ve finally reached that place of maturity where they can look back and realize they were co-dependent in a way that was unhealthy and destructive, that they assumed the other would know everything without communicating it, and now, in the present, they’re laying it all on the table and actually doing something about it, saying this is where you hurt me and where I hurt you and I want to move on, I want us to be better than that. They needed to be their own people, to have a few years to breathe and reflect, but I personally think they also felt that missing space without the other, that want and need they couldn’t quite shake off, because they knew they could have been happier and that there’s still a lot of time to have that happiness. Whenever I’m feeling really critical of their actions, I remind myself that they were still really young boys when everything blew up, when they said and did the hurtful things they did, not to excuse those things, but to dismiss the idea that there’s no potential for them to be better than those things, because there’s so much room ahead of them to grow. I think they could totally do it; Andrew has pretty much confirmed that he played Eduardo as wanting that more than anything (HE JUST WANTS THEM TO MOVE IN TOGETHER AND CUDDLE), so really, it all kind of rests on Mark and if you think he could be capable of it. I’m an optimist and I see a lot of warmth and longing in him, so I think he could, but I get that everyone views him differently.

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1 year ago on 25 April 2011 @ 3:28pm 7 notes
formerlydidyoublush
"It’s basically Eduardo’s kryptonite, as seen with I need my CFO."

We've talked about this to death, but the thing that makes me /so/ sad is that Mark said basically the same thing the other night, in the hallway and (as an audience we know that) it was coming from a more sincere and desperate place! As opposed to that phone call, where (again, the audience is more exclusively privy to) there was a twinge of manipulation. Like, Mark may mean the things he said to Eduardo, deep down, but I do believe that it was a set up of Eduardo's own feelings for him to get him down to Palo Alto. I feel like Mark reached the point of no return after the account freezing. What makes it so stupidly sad is that it was so hard for Mark to admit that sort of thing and to tell someone that he NEEDED them, that he physically recoiled and asked that his words not be repeated because it was a private moment, something intimate meant for Eduardo only and Eduardo basically got everything he wanted from Mark. To be wanted and desperately needed, separate from Facebook, not for the money or the algorithm, but he was not in an emotional place to actually hear it. Sometimes that makes me want to claw my own eyes out. I'd love to know how that hallway conversation ended and just to sort of see a glimpse of Mark afterwards. We're never allowed to see him fall apart completely until the full break up scene (I guess to make that more poignant) but I imagine he was not in a good place at all.

Ugh, all of this. EVERYTHING HINGES ON THAT MOMENT, which is why I said Eduardo “almost always” responds, because in the one key bit where he really needed to hear it, he was just somewhere else completely and the timing was terrible but yes, absolutely, that does not at all diminish what a big deal it was for Mark. It was everything Eduardo had been waiting to hear and it sucks that he got a watered down version of it over the phone, because the first time was just so much more raw and guttural, it seemed to literally take the breath out of Mark, his entire body language so tense and fragile and it hurts to watch, seriously. He tried to have that private little—declaration, confession, whatever you want to call it and it blew up in his face, so I understand, a little, why he’s so reserved and guarded, because it seems like every single time he gets over a block and admits exactly what he feels, it’s unheard by the person who needs to hear it more than anyone else. SEE: HE WAS MY BEST FRIEND AND THE EMPTY CHAIR. :(  

One of my few pet peeves with TSN is that some scenes cut away so abruptly to the point where you’re like, um, HOW DID THIS EVEN END, HOW DID THESE PEOPLE WALK AWAY FROM SOMETHING LIKE THAT, and the hallway fight is probably the best example. I know Fincher said in his commentary that he knew going into it that it would end with Eduardo echoing the left behind bit, but there are pictures of wet!Wardo standing by the pool and looking angsty, and I’m sure they must have shot some extra stuff in the hallway itself, since the shoot took seven hours and everything between Jesse and Andrew was apparently so intense and exhausting and the odd BtS clip has shown that they would sometimes slip in the odd little thing that wasn’t scripted but purely physical and instinctual, most notably during the laptop smash. SIGH. Like, there are so many fics dealing with the hallway, but they’re all pretty much of the hate-sex variety and while I will never complain about that in my life, I do wish there were some that just simply had Eduardo listening. OR MAYBE AN ACTUAL FILMED ALTERNATE SCENE. A GIRL CAN DREAM.
 
But yes, Mark, I kind of wish they had shot Eduardo leaving the house and Mark’s reaction to that, because HE HAD JUST GOT HIM BACK AND HE HAD BEEN SO HAPPY and I think the saddest thing about it is that Mark was totally willing to talk and fix it and probably would have if Eduardo hadn’t uncharacteristically fled. Mark instantly repsonding sure to Eduardo wanting to talk alone is probably one of the more seamless and less strained moments they have, from Mark’s end, because he just gives in without a fight and understands that they need that privacy, that he wants that privacy, whereas before I think he might have been a little scared of it. You know, it’s weird to watch the movie back and realize that they’re not actually alone that much, they’re usually surrounded, but they do this thing where they zero in on each other and you get tricked into thinking they’re the only two people in the room, and it’s so bizarre that one of the only times they’re truly by themselves, in this tight little space, so many wires are crossed.

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1 year ago on 25 April 2011 @ 2:31pm 16 notes
rebeccalogansmoved
Hmm, to me it was more misleading in the sense that Eduardo was actually wanting to be there for Mark, back then when I did not know the context of the scene - I just thought it was really sweet. "I need you." followed up by "I'm here for you.", I guess I was hoping for something different then Mark asking for the algorithm. I was hoping for something sweeter I suppose? But I do get what you mean. I also did wish we had seen more of the M/E friendship before the Facebook stuff but then the movie would have been way too lon.

Ah, I get you. Mark’s reply is a bit of a boner killer, of course it is, but Eduardo’s automatic I’m here for you, I think, can still be seen as sweet. It’s how he’s introduced to us, even, so you could argue it’s his defining trait. Like a lot of stuff in this movie, I look at that little bit as something that gradually holds more poignance and significance as the story goes on; Mark basically takes the wrap for both of them at the ad board and singles out what was written on his dorm room window as being all the evidence they needed to find out he was “guilty”, with a lot of cheek and pride, and he gets exactly the kind of nostalgia and man, look how far we’ve come Eduardo is communicaitng when he says remember the algorithm? As a standalone line, I need the algorithm isn’t that big of a deal, but it’s something that becomes sweet in retrospect, because Mark remembered it too, because Mark put value in it too. And as the months pass and the wedge between them grows and they start clinging desperately, we see him stop qualifying his need with objects and instead he just entirely confesses that he needs Eduardo, just Eduardo, that’s it, so—again, yeah, I think that first scene is something that kind of jumps out at you minimally, at first, because it tells you, okay, these guys clearly have a bit of a bump and lack of balance and while Eduardo’s affection is crystal clear to everyone in the room (Dustin giggling and facepalming in the background never stops being funny), you don’t realize until later that Mark has kind of been feeling it all along, too, even if it was subconscious. You could even look at both of the respective shots of Mark and Eduardo losing track of thought and staring out the window during the depositions as remembering the algorithm, if you were so inclined, although I think most of fandom has applied the Mark bit to remembering Eduardo in the rain. That’s the beauty of it, though, that those little ticks could mean anything and everything.

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1 year ago on 25 April 2011 @ 1:50pm 7 notes